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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:41 pm Post subject: Mayor of Toronto Blames U.S. for Shootings in His City... |
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Interesting article.
Of course, if W. Bush were not president, Canadians wouldn't be saying things like this, because all of the anti-American hostility is related to the current Administration.
Also, I note that the mayor and a security analyst also reference problems with Canada's poor and specifically cite "a gang problem" in Toronto. This is surprising, because the "learn to take better care of your poor" comments that poured out in the wake of the Katrina disaster -- on this forum -- led me to believe that Canada didn't have any such social issues, particularly in the great, peaceful, diplomatic, racism- and violent-crime free city of Toronto...
"Guns don't kill people! Stupid motherf*****s with guns kill people!"
Chris Tucker, Money Talks
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/12/27/canada.crime.ap/index.html |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, I'd put some of the blame on the Canadian government. It did absolutely nothing to prevent the growth of the most powerful gangs in Canada, such as the bikers and the Asian gangs. Had they taken action 20 years ago, the problem could have been easily controled. But in instead, they chose to dismiss the bikers as being unsophisticated thugs and bowed under the pressure of certain interest groups who laid accusations of racism on to anyone who spoke of Asian gangs. |
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yoda
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Location: Incheon, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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It will certainly be embarrassing for him if the gun turns out to be local. It is possible to get handguns in Canada too.
However, the argument is the same one that the U.S. government has been using to criticize Canada for that wacky weed that gets smuggled into the US. Unfortunately, the friction caused by immigrants and marijuana flowing south and guns and tobacco flowing north is going to force our respective governments to waste resources tightening up the border. I prefer a freer border and greater economic cooperation.
Personally, while I am for anti handgun laws, I think it is a far stretch to blame foreign laws for domestic violence issues.
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| I'd put some of the blame on the Canadian government. |
How about 98% to the Canadian governments for allowing gangs to grow in Canada and say 2% to the US for having lax handgun laws which allow guns to end up smuggled into Canada. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| yoda wrote: |
| ...the argument is the same one that the U.S. government has been using to criticize Canada for that wacky weed that gets smuggled into the US. |
Absolutely. The U.S. can be fairly criticized for emphasizing drug production over drug consumption in the so-called war on drugs. Eradicating Andean coca fields does not address the demand problem which, I believe, is the root of the overall problem. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Mayor of Toronto Blames U.S. for Shootings in His City.. |
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| Gopher wrote: |
led me to believe that Canada didn't have any such social issues, particularly in the great, peaceful, diplomatic, racism- and violent-crime free city of Toronto...
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You must have seen Bowling for Columbine! That outstanding documentary presents a complete and accurate view of the entire social situation in Canada. No poverty, no unemployment, ethnic harmony, and no crime. Well, okay, occational violent crime, but only because of things from OUTSIDE of our borders.
You certainly can't blame the poor, disadvantaged, mislead souls who did this...it's not their fault! |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| So we can't address the underlying social issues because that is crazy and we can't take away guns from people becasue then we're in a facist state so what's your suggestion? |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| yoda wrote: |
| However, the argument is the same one that the U.S. government has been using to criticize Canada for that wacky weed that gets smuggled into the US. Unfortunately, the friction caused by immigrants and marijuana flowing south and guns and tobacco flowing north is going to force our respective governments to waste resources tightening up the border. |
yoda, aren't you british who has the proud streak about not knowing about North American 'happenings'.. 
But anyways.. I never heard of the U.S. criticizing Canada for wacky week.. Canadians make it sound like it has some weird monopoly on pot. But pot is absolutely everywhere in the U.S. (stats since the 1960s have always alluded to high usage among high school and college students in the U.S.). Whatever did come from Canada would be something like a fraction of a small percent, hardly even on the radar map. I smoked a lot when I was young in Michigan.. and it was always Thai Stick or Humbodlt County stuff or some local variety of houseplants around and down the street.. stuff would come up from the South a lot - Kentucky, etc. BC bud just had no real reputation as anything all that special until I got to Korea and the BC guys started talking about it like its the center of the world.
But anyways.. the 'war on drugs' in the U.S. is epidemic with meth, crack, heroin, etc.. all the real drugs.
All this 'pot-smoking' canadian stuff is extremely light nearly non-relevant non-existant concerns to any DEA (drug enforcement agency). Particularly when we already have a zillion crack houses and meth labs in just about every niche and cranny of the U.S. to deal with. From my experience, with how prevalent pot was on my campus, the DEA and otherwise really overlook such a light drug as pot use among college students unless you have massive amounts of it with intent to sell.. and then would be required to respond to that if it seemed too obvious.
But the real drug epidemic is with home-grown crack houses and meth labs.. and the origin of the crack/cocaine is coming from South America.. as is the origin of meth labs originally having also come from Mexico.
Canada is in the serious lightweight category when it comes to drugs.. which I guess is why this 'gang shooting' stirred up the entire nation up there.
When I lived in Minneapolis.. there was a crack house a few houses down.. and even heard a few drive-by shootings that woke me up night.. one night even had a guy chalked out on the sidewalk on the corner. That everyday incident in the mass majority of U.S. cities wouldn't even be worthy of back page of the local newspaper let alone into some national media frenzy event.
With this shooting alone.. its definetely a concern that Canada may get our extremely serious epidemic social drug problems than that we in the U.S. might get BC bud in the hands of a few college students living in Bellingham Washington. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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I would be very surprised if a good chunk of the illegal guns in Canada weren't coming from the US. Now, that being said:
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"What happened yesterday was appalling. You just don't expect it in a Canadian city," the mayor said.
"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.
Miller said Toronto, a city of nearly three million, is still very safe compared to most American cities, but the illegal flow of weapons from the United States is causing the noticeable rise in gun violence.
"The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.
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US laws exist solely for the protection of US citizens. If Canada doesn't like the smuggling that results from those laws, tough beans. It's up to Canada to secure its own borders against contraband, and the US is under no obligation to change its own laws to make Canada a safer place.
However, if a perception does develop among Canadians that the US is a main source of illegal weapons, then Canadian border guards will be well within their rights to increase interrogation of American travellers at the border. If American travellers don't like it, they can lobby their own government to tighten the gun laws. |
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