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Islam's Image Issues......
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists have rules against consuming pork, beef, and alcohol, respectively.

However, you don't see any of these religious minorities giving grief to restaurants or shops that sell these foods or beverages.

Why does it seem that Muslims are the only religious minority that tries to impose its rules upon non-members?

example: going into a shop and demanding that a picture of Piglet, a cartoon pig dressed in overalls, be removed

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/10/04/do0402.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/10/04/ixportal.html
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists have rules against consuming pork, beef, and alcohol, respectively.
However, you don't see any of these religious minorities giving grief to restaurants or shops that sell these foods or beverages.
To the best of my knowledge, Islam has certain food restrictions too. I'm not completely sure there is qu'ran support but i think that pork is seen as a dirty animal and that humans shouldn't eat it.

Quote:
Why does it seem that Muslims are the only religious minority that tries to impose its rules upon non-members?
you're not american by chance are you? Does the "under God" thing bother you?
Or is it that xtians aren't a minority so it isn't any kind of imposition?
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear khyber:

Question

I'm sorry, but you've lost me.

Either you didn't understand the point that I was making in my last post,
or I'm not getting what you're saying.

Could you re-read my post and get back to me?
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wannago



Joined: 16 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khyber wrote:
Quote:
Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists have rules against consuming pork, beef, and alcohol, respectively.
However, you don't see any of these religious minorities giving grief to restaurants or shops that sell these foods or beverages.
To the best of my knowledge, Islam has certain food restrictions too. I'm not completely sure there is qu'ran support but i think that pork is seen as a dirty animal and that humans shouldn't eat it.

Quote:
Why does it seem that Muslims are the only religious minority that tries to impose its rules upon non-members?
you're not american by chance are you? Does the "under God" thing bother you?
Or is it that xtians aren't a minority so it isn't any kind of imposition?


I'm American and it doesn't bother me a bit mainly because no one has to say it, believe it or adhere to anything regarding it. CHRISTians are a majority but can't make you go to their church or practice their beliefs. Believe me, there are some that would like to. Thank God they can't (but you don't have to thank God if you don't want).

You aren't canadian by chance are you?
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Gorgias



Joined: 27 Aug 2005

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
bigverne wrote:
I am saying that we should not live in fear of offending muslim sensibilities.


Should we be sensitive to one another's beliefs and worldviews? I think so. That is the world I would like to live in.
....
People should be sensitive to each other, and it is certainly immature to deliberately provoke another ethnic or cultural group. They should also grow up.


Sir, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Sensitivity will be the catch word of the day very soon. It will heavily inform our philosophy of free-speech and public discourse in the very near future. On BBC yesterday, a commentator said, "we don't print child pornography because it offends people." Is that why? Of course not, but that paradigm will be our touch stone for deciding a miriad of these sort of issues hence forth. Sensitivity: learn to use this word and concept, and watch for the abuse of it.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troll_Bait wrote:
Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists have rules against consuming pork, beef, and alcohol, respectively.

However, you don't see any of these religious minorities giving grief to restaurants or shops that sell these foods or beverages.

Why does it seem that Muslims are the only religious minority that tries to impose its rules upon non-members?

example: going into a shop and demanding that a picture of Piglet, a cartoon pig dressed in overalls, be removed

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/10/04/do0402.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/10/04/ixportal.html


one example. Wow, some powerful stuff you got there.
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Satori



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
Troll_Bait wrote:
Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists have rules against consuming pork, beef, and alcohol, respectively.

However, you don't see any of these religious minorities giving grief to restaurants or shops that sell these foods or beverages.

Why does it seem that Muslims are the only religious minority that tries to impose its rules upon non-members?

example: going into a shop and demanding that a picture of Piglet, a cartoon pig dressed in overalls, be removed

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/10/04/do0402.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/10/04/ixportal.html


one example. Wow, some powerful stuff you got there.

But a rather tellling one. And let's not be naive and presume this is isolated and will not continue and escalate.

Dudley Metropolitan Borough Council (Tory-controlled) has now announced that, following a complaint by a Muslim employee, all work pictures and knick-knacks of novelty pigs and "pig-related items" will be banned. Among the verboten items is one employee's box of tissues, because it features a representation of Winnie the Pooh and Piglet. And, as we know, Muslims regard pigs as "unclean", even an anthropomorphised cartoon pig wearing a scarf and a bright, colourful singlet.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame non-muslims for that more than muslims.

Why? Because us infidels are the majority and are looking pathetically weak. As the cliche goes: give them an inch and they'll take a foot (or however it goes).

They probably would stop their whining if they were never successful.
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Teufelswacht



Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorgias wrote:
Gopher wrote:
bigverne wrote:
I am saying that we should not live in fear of offending muslim sensibilities.


Should we be sensitive to one another's beliefs and worldviews? I think so. That is the world I would like to live in.
....
People should be sensitive to each other, and it is certainly immature to deliberately provoke another ethnic or cultural group. They should also grow up.


Sir, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Sensitivity will be the catch word of the day very soon. It will heavily inform our philosophy of free-speech and public discourse in the very near future. On BBC yesterday, a commentator said, "we don't print child pornography because it offends people." Is that why? Of course not, but that paradigm will be our touch stone for deciding a miriad of these sort of issues hence forth. Sensitivity: learn to use this word and concept, and watch for the abuse of it.


Excellent point about "sensitivity." In addition, the practice of labeling anyone who dares to criticize the ROP a "bigot" will continue and become more commonplace, I believe..

Reading your comment I was reminded of something I read in the IHT this morning:

Quote:
"Islam is protected by an invisible blasphemy law," said Jasper Gerard, a columnist in The Sunday Times of London. "It is called fear.


http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/07/news/europe.php

But, in all honesty I think I can understand why some Muslims are confused by the whole thing. By buckling under time after time the governments in Eurpoe have shown they have little stomach for actually defending the rights they so proudly espouse. The expectation that the Danish and other goverments would do the same in this case was a valid expectation by the Muslims.

I think they were surprised when the newspaper and the governments, initially, told the ROP representatives that the freedom of speech and the separation of the media from government are two things that won't be given up without a fight.

Lest we forget the proud history of European submission, a very short and incomplete, list:

In 2000, Islamic pressure was held responsible in the Netherlands and Belgium for the cancellation of an opera about Aisha, the youngest wife of Muhammad.

In 2005, a Moroccan-Dutch painter, Rachid Ben Ali, went into hiding after death threats related to an exhibit showing "hate-imams" spitting bombs.

In 2004 the filmmaker Theo van Gogh was killed for committing what his confessed killer called blasphemy in a film called "Submission" about violence against Muslim women. The movie was not shown widely.

Salman Rushidies Satanic Verses fatwa and the weak, weak response by the European Community.

The British "Piglet" controversy. Winnie the Pooh cartoons, and piggy banks, are subsequently declared demons from hell by the British banking establishment and local governments.

Lesser known events come from the attempt by scholars to conduct the same critical examination of the Koran and Islam's "sacred history." According to the sources I have read, the fear of Muslim violence has effectively strangled the willingness of scholarls to conduct critical examinations of the Koran, Hadiths and Islamic history. The texts and history or Islam have yet to receive the same level of critical examination that other religions have received.

So, I can understand Muslim confusion at the response by nations that have a long history of submission in the name of tolerance and "sensitivity."

They probably feel betrayed by their European hosts sudden show of backbone.

Finally, in a show of solidarity with everyone I provide the following:

http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/1477.html

Take care.
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Cthulhu



Joined: 02 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to love the excesses of multiculturalism. The majority must bend to the will of the minority even if that means cutting out traditions that seem relatively innocuous. It especially grates when it is done simply because a single person was offended--as opposed to a generally accepted offense, such as the Koran having a particularly heartfelt proscription against the porcine denizens of the Hundred Acre Wood. Is it any wonder this peculiar condition called multiculturalism hasn't caught on the world over?

If someone told me to remove a box of tissues from my own workspace because it had an image of Piglet on it I'd tell them to shove cardboard Piglet where the sun don't shine.

Sensitively, of course.
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase



Joined: 04 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some tips for a good life.

Buy what you want.

Read what you want.

Watch what you want.

Listen to what you want.

Eat what you want.

Drink what you want.

Write what you want.

Draw what you want.

All within the bounds of your country's law, of course.

If your choices are reduced to appease those who would not respect your own sensitivities in kind, then start a black market and get on with life. (A British black market in Winnie the Pooh - oooh, how radical.) If that doesn't work, then you could take it to the streets and beat the PC zealots at their own game. People are supposed to rally for more freedom, not less. Find creative ways to revive the spirit of the '60s that the radicals themselves have long since betrayed.

For now, the best way to deal with Western PC zealots is with apathy. Trust me, they are actually more annoyed when you are NOT in their faces (just read your local student rag). So let's "confront" them with their worst fears by turning our backs and closing our doors. If they can't possibly mind their own bloody business, then let them tear their hair out and imagine the worst. Let them imagine us consuming, consuming, consuming. Because - guess what? - that's exactly what we'll be doing.
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Teufelswacht



Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yet another example of the European uhhhh I mean Asian insensitivity towards the ROP. Darn those insensitive Thai's. Or since it's Sony is it insensitive Japanese? I'm getting confused. Could someone please construct an "Insensitivity Scorecard" so I can keep track of this pandemic of insensitivity that has spread throughout the world.

Quote:
Thai Rap Song Mocks Koran
Tuesday, February 07, 2006

KABUL, Afghanistan — A music distributor recalled two Thai rap CDs from stores Tuesday after Muslims complained the tracks insult their faith.

An article on the Thai-language Muslim Web site www.muslimthai.com said a song recorded on CDs in 1998 and 2005 "clearly insults the Koran," the Muslim holy book.

It said the CDs contain verses from the Koran and "the Koran strictly forbids the use of its verses in songs."

The Council of Muslim Organizations of Thailand said rapper Joey Boy and songwriter Kamol Sukosol Clapp, also known as Suki, should not have used the Koranic verses.

The song, "Maya," was released in 1998 on a Joey Boy CD called "Bangkok Boy" and appeared again on the 2005 compilation "The Conclusive Collection."

Sony BMG Music Entertainment Thailand has recalled both CDs, and they will probably be destroyed, said Saharat Vanchompoo, the Sony marketing director.

Joey Boy and Clapp apologized at a news conference to "all Muslims" for producing the song.


"I did not intend to insult the Koran in any way," said Joey Boy, whose real name is Abhisit Opasiemlikit. "If I knew that there was an insulting sound or element in my song, Suki and I would not have created it."

The rapper, the songwriter, and Sony BMG's Saharat said they have requested a meeting as soon as possible with Thailand's top Muslim leader to formally apologize.

In Europe, drawings of the Prophet Muhammad published in a Danish paper have sparked violent protests in the Muslim world.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184113,00.html
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:38 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

I'd just like to put a few things in perspective here.

I grew up in a town with roughly 4000 people and 22 churches.

As a child, when i told classmates that I didn't attend church, more than a few of them told me I was bad. This happened regularly, and the last time i remember it happening was when I was a junior in high school at the age of 17. One classmate was interested in my case because he was supposed to "bear witness" of sinners, because at his church, bearing witness of sinners allowed the congregation to look out for their welfare. Save them, if you will. So they had this whole prayer network set up where they could report sin by telephone and pray for the bad people. In other words, a whole gossip network. Not that not going to church is a sin, but I certainly wasn't saved. And I lived in a community special enough for someone who I told I didn't go to church to tell me that he was going going to bear witness for me. Thanks!

And it was also a place where you didn't work on Sundays. All shops had to close on Sundays. If they didn't, the united church posse came to pressure them into it.

And then it happened. A Pizza Hut opened when I was about 10. The posse came. The local owner declined to close shop on Sunday. They came and they came. They didn't succeed in closing the Pizza Hut on Sunday. For many years, it stood alone.

Then came the KFC and the McD's.

Now, everything is pretty much open on Sundays.

At the same time, there was a club in my public high school called Pathfinders. It was Christian and people prayed regularly at its meetings on public school grounds. For all I know, it's still there.

This is, by the book, unconstitutional.

As a college freshman, I moved to the east coast, where PC was in bloom. Visiting on the holidays, I told my family about PC. They just kind of giggled. 2 years later. they were all on about PC and how stupid it was.

That may all seem a bit scatter-brained, but it leads to 2 points I'd like to make:

1) I don't like the PC movement in terms of its replacing words like freshman with "first-year-student" or the hysterical concept of replacing "history" because it supposed has a masculine emphasis. HOWEVER, what the PC movement did accomplish was a tightening of the leash at the other end. Here I refer specifically to blacks and homosexuals.

It's now taboo to use the word n_igger or g_ay in a demeaning fashion. That is thanks to the PC movement. It certainly isn't due to bigots and homophobes voluntarily cleaning up their acts.

My friends and I even used "gay" to refer to stupid people/things until we were openly confronted by the fact that other friends of ours were GLB.

Our stopping, and the overall stopping of that, was a turn for the better.

That's my statement about sensitivity.

As for Islam, it's important to remember that the majority of Muslims are not the ones out burning embassies. They aren't. And, when an embassy gets trashed, that's with the permission of the local government. Embassies in Pakistan didn't get trashed. Pakistan has a nuke and a very militant populace.

To sum up, I don't condone the recent actions of militant Muslims. Violence should, in no way, be recognized or tolerated as a viable way to curb freedom of expression, but I don't believe the actions of a few should be taken as representative of what is a religion of the other millions NOT burning embassies.

Choose your enemies wisely.
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AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: ... Reply with quote

Nowhere Man wrote:
As for Islam, it's important to remember that the majority of Muslims are not the ones out burning embassies. They aren't.

To sum up, I don't condone the recent actions of militant Muslims. Violence should, in no way, be recognized or tolerated as a viable way to curb freedom of expression, but I don't believe the actions of a few should be taken as representative of what is a religion of the other millions NOT burning embassies.


Normally, I would agree with you, but we've been hearing this mantra from muslims for years and it's getting old. Okay, so extremists only make up roughtly 1% of the Muslim population. So where n'hell are all the peaceful ones going? What are they doing? Why do they allow this radical fringe to constantly take over and control their image and religion? Clearly they outnumber the radicals.

The fact that we get a whole lotta nuthin' from them leads me to believe that they're sympathetic to the cause of their Muslim brothers. They aren't hardcore enough to participate, but they don't hinder, either. The only time they speak out is when there is a danger of reprisals to the Muslim populace. "It's important for everyone to understand that these people do not represent Islam. We are a religion of peace," Blah blah blah. So where were these peaceful Muslims when the terrorists are being recruited in the mosques in their neighborhood. Why aren't they speaking out against the message of hate and intolerance that is constantly spewing out from Imams all over the world. Either they're nodding they're head in agreement or hiding with their head in the sand. They're worthless, one way or the other.

��S��
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The fact that we get a whole lotta nuthin' from them leads me to believe that they're sympathetic to the cause of their Muslim brothers. They aren't hardcore enough to participate, but they don't hinder, either. The only time they speak out is when there is a danger of reprisals to the Muslim populace.


Spot on. This is exactly why the Muslim Council of Britain and other fake 'moderates' have been speaking out against the incitements to murder witnessed in London. They don't actually care that innocent infidels could be hurt or killed. All they care about is the backlash against muslims and the damage being done to the image of their religion. I well remember the behaviour of such people after July 7th, telling all and sundry about the possible 'backlash' against muslims, rather than worrying about more atrocities being carried out by their co-religionists.

So, please, let's here no more BS about this 'vast majority' of moderate muslims. That nonsense will not fly anymore.
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