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death from above
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: in your head
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 Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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i feel informed now...
but, wait.. itunes has spyware? arrghhh
anyway.. thanks guys  |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| There's a lot of insanity going on around here, so let's try to take it one bit at a time. Full disclosure: I have an iPod and a Powerbook, though I'm far from a Mac acolyte (in fact, I'm quite irritable right now because my Powerbook has died yet again for no reason and the @*$(*@***! at Yongsan's Apple Repair Store couldn't do anything for me because the powerbook worked fine when I brought it in to him). |
Sorry to hear that. You may have better luck at the Apple centre in COEX. A lot of stores will try to discourage the returns of goods but if you're persistent enough you should get a replacement. What's funny is that there are these so called GENIUSES (yes they really call themselves that) who are as knowledgeable as a 2-bit phonecard dealer. Owners often find themselves talking to the head-honcho, which upon after a minute or 2 of intense thinking, will finally listen to you and replace your iPods/laptops free of charge.
Just make sure that you actually get something new and not a refurbish/second hand.
Apple pride themselves on quality to justify their higher prices so make them work for it.
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| Regarding marketing, I don't think it's as simple as saying "Well, they spend a lot on their marketing so they sell a lot of stuff." If that were the case, then their competitors would just start spending more on it and would experience similar increases in sales. The fact that they don't compete as well with the iPod has something to do with the fact that they are, generally speaking, not as good. |
Marketing sells! For things like PCs and TVs, commodities, they sell themselves so they don't need nearly as much exposure as Apple does.
Apple needs to spend big money to gain as much exposure as possible.
TV ads, posters, king-sized posters, internet ads as well as their crazed fans. This is USA style marketing - HYPE. It is far harder for a foreign company like Sony or iAudio to compete with Apple on their home ground. The same goes for Apple in Japan and Korea, I can assure you that the home grown products are way more popular.
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I can't tell you how many people I know from back home who decided to "not buy the hype" of the iPod and went with something from another manufacturer. Every single one of them (whether they bought from Dell, Sony, Rio or someone else) was disappointed with what they had. Either the software didn't work well or it was too small or just plain broke. Everyone I've known who has owned an iPod has had very few problems with them. Please notice that I did not say "Every single iPod made by Blessed Apple of Jobs (Hallowed is His Name) is perfect." I'm just saying that from my own personal experiences, iPods offer better features to young folk who want something quick, easy, and relatively durable that they can carry around town with them with their music (which are, of course, the primary market for these things).
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That's fine. Every non-fanatic iPod users I know have had problems with their iPods, pbooks and macbooks. A couple of them were asked to buy another iPod because their batteries died! I have debated with some fanatics on the sound quality of the iPods, and have demonstrated right in front of them to prove it. They are livid.
People are first attracted to the advertisements, then they look at the features in big writing and they are sold. Apple does a great job of emphasising their products' benefits, they also do a great job of mocking everybody else (like their "mockery of Intel PCs"). This sort of tactic appeals to the young ones who wants individuality and snob-appeal.
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Which brings me to my second point. As much as some folk here have problems with "fundi Christians" (always nice when that can be brought up in a topic that has nothing to do with such people), some of the most insufferable people I've ever met are self-described "audiophiles"--"Oh, the iPod doesn't support every sound format in the world... Oh, it won't let me transfer my ultra-high-rez professional puictures... Oh, it doesn't have an integral microphone..."
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So with your analogy, most people here would agree that Apple fans come across as the most ignorant people on the face of the planet.
Um, no. Audiophiles actually KNOW what they're talking about. You don't. With that kind of ramble I don't think I need to answer this any further.
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| This is true--of course, the iPod also lacks a steam iron, which is why I don't use it to iron my shirts. The iPod is designed to hold a huge amount of music for quick and easy playback on the go. Over time they've been able to advance the thing enough so that it can hold photos and videos (which I like having with me, but even without those features it would be a good buy). You can even use the thing to transmit high-quality video onto your TV. |
Transmit high-quality video to your TV? Big WHOOPEEDOO. Mobile phones do that. You are clearly missing the point and this is what all Apple zealots resort to when people talk about missing features, they start talking about missing irons and sandwich makers.
Lets talk about the good old fashion Sony walkman, the tape one. It started off as a player, evolved into a radio playing, recording portable device. It was innovative and people used it for years.
Next was the CD player, again Sony was among the first. Soon, those players had radio and even MP3s capabilities. Hell, it has evolved into a DVD playing portable. Technology has come so far, and in small packages.
You may not think or realise it, but most people appreciate the additional features. Its not about the "jack of all trade, master of nothing" bullcrap, Sony/Aiwa/Panasonic/Phllips/etc were all constantly evolving in their R&D to produce smaller, smarter portable players. Kind of like how the development of the PC helped evolved from a room size machine to a tiny handheld device.
The video iPod by the way has a sucky resolution and a poor processor for video playback. Have you actually tried watching video from the iPod on a TV? Its like watching a cam of The benchwarmers.
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Though the battery can be a little erratic (show me a rechargeable device that isn't), I must say I prefer it to using batteries--the last thing I want to hear after buying something like this is that I'm going to be shelling out for batteries every week or so to keep it running.
Lest you forget, the newest iPods only support USB connections--they scrapped the USB/Firewire to make room for other features. |
They scrapped the Firewire support because they wanted to cater to the larger market (ie. the PC users). Apple only has 2-3% of the IT market, too small to make enough money.
As for batteries, think of it this way. Imagine you had a remote control for your tv, video, stereo, whatever that had non-interchangeable batteries. Can you imagine buying a new remote every year just so that you could watch your TV? I don't think a lot of people can adapt to this ridiculous idea.
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I've yet to see another manufacturer who's been able to cram as many features and capacity into such a small case, and until I see one, I'm not going to take seriously any complaints that "The don't put enough features on it!"
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Um, what features?
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As for the business end of things, I don't have the slightest idea what deal Apple made with Samsung. I am, however, aware of a little company called Western Digital (perhaps you've heard of it--they were Forbes magazine's "Best Managed Company" of 2005?). If someone else has a solid design for a portable music player, I doubt that they're going to slam their fists on the table and say "Blast! We've been outmaneuvered again by Steve Jobs!" because Samsung won't sell them HDs.
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Oh then you should really get into it and read more about Apple's dodgy business practices.
Did you know Apple, the company, forced a lot of 3rd party sellers out of business?
Did you know that Apple almost forced Motorola (computing) out of commission when they pulled the plug on them? Apple's individuality ended right there. Apple abrutedly switched to using IBM processors. Since then Motorola has become a non-player for computers. Shame.
Did you know Apple did the same thing to IBM when they switched to Intel? It wasn't because IBM didn't have the technology or the numbers in stock. It was because Apple couldn't live up to their hype of having the fastest computers in the world. IBM now makes processors for the XBOX and possibly the PS3.
Did you know when Apple made one of the first powerbooks, their batteries were either exploding or couldn't start? This was before the iPod craze where Apple actually had TIME TO DO SOME QUALITY CHECK.
Did you know Apple recently admitted that there was a major problem with the logic board used in the Macbook pro, and that they were going to recall every one of them that had the whining problem. Oh yeah and there's that overheating problem...
Just face it, Apple skimps so much on quality control, they want consumers to do it for them. I don't think they even have an R&D department.
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Bottom line: the iPod has the market share it does because it makes a solid product that you don't have to think about very much. It's solidly-made, well-backed by tech support and the like, and has a very easy interface both on itself and on the computer (my extremely techno-phobic mother was amazed at how easy it is to use). I'm unaware of any other company out there that puts out a comparable product (but am more than willing to listen if anyone has a suggestion on where to find one). Until then, I'm sticking with what I have.
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Yup, maybe if you get your overpriced, unreliable laptop...sorry notebook to work properly.
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P.S. I don't know what you're talking about when you say that the iPod has lower audio quality than a CD--this is the exact opposite of what I've found in my experience.
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Then I'm sorry to say that there is something wrong with your ears or you're listening to noise. You also don't know what you're talking about when it comes to comparing sound quality.
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| P.P.S. In case you still suspect my ties to Apple, let me say now that I'm typing this on the PC deskop that I built some months ago--again, due to the fact that my Powerbook has inexpicably died on me. |
You are just an Apple apologist, and there is nothing wrong with that if you can admit it. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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P.S. I don't know what you're talking about when you say that the iPod has lower audio quality than a CD--this is the exact opposite of what I've found in my experience.
Then I'm sorry to say that there is something wrong with your ears or you're listening to noise. You also don't know what you're talking about when it comes to comparing sound quality. |
CG! You should know better than that!!
There is tons more information on a CD per song compared to an MP3. I think roughly about 12 times more. The CD player can get a lot more detail, depth and general quality than any MP3 player up until the MP3 track is recorded in something like 390 kilobytes per second which is very rare to see on the internet.
Anyway. Put an I-pod into a good stereo and play a song recorded at the average of 128 kbps. Then play a real CD of the song. You should hear quite a difference. |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Not the absolute greatest source, but here's what CNET has to say about audio quality.
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James Kim,
senior editor
Ultimately, MP3 players are about the music--so which one sounds the best? Determining the best-sounding player is a tricky task since many of the top devices utilize the same sound chips. In fact, unless you have the golden ears of an audiophile, it's difficult to notice the difference between devices. Still, we, the editors and CNET Labs, put them to the test using a playlist ranging from Air to Bob Dylan, comprising a variety of genres encoded at 320Kbps VBR MP3, setting equal volume levels, and disabling any EQ or sound-effects settings. Using a pair of our trusty Grado headphones, we judged sound quality in a blind sound test and came up with some consistent (and interesting) results. Described as warm and true, the sound quality of *Cowon's iAudio X5 fared very well, as did the iRiver H320 right behind it. Toshiba's Gigabeat F20 had mixed reviews ("tinny," "good for techno" and "slightly processed with a hint of hiss") as did Creative's "tight" and "hiss-free" Zen Touch. But it was the brand-new Sony NW-HD5 that consistently ranked number one, delivering MP3s "with a crispy warm seal." Which consistently ranked last? Apple's iPod Photo. |
*I own an X5, fyi.
Anyway, as they say, sound quality is a bit subjective. However, there are some hard numbers to back some of these claims up. For one, the Ipod does not have the highest signal to noise ratio of the bunch. For another, it doesn't play a lot of formats, some of which are indistinguisable from CDs. (FLAC for example.) |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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I have an ipod and I am content with it.
I bought my 20gig photo for 150,000 (display model)
I've realized that if I don't use it for a long while (three weeks+) it acts up. Otherwise, no problems.
There are a number of different Eq presets (i'd actually like a manual preset but woe, not there) which have a proFOUND affect on quality of song and I have difficulty thinking that a song can be consistently "Too ____" with such a variety of options.
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So with your analogy, most people here would agree that Apple fans come across as the most ignorant people on the face of the planet.
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no... I didn't get that. Not being an "Audiophile" does not make one "the most ignorant [person] on the planet".... but that is a FANTASTICALLY apropos thing to say. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:27 am Post subject: |
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CG was being outlandish about audiophiles, I thought I'd return the favour.
With regards to using EQ presets, yes they do enhance the lows, mids and highs but that doesn't make the iPod any better. They more or less hide their weaknesses.
Did you think that music were optimised when they were recorded for CD or did you think that people had to do optimise it with EQ? Just curious. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:33 am Post subject: |
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It's amazing how on this board any time somebody says they prefer apple stuff they get labelled a 'cult-of-Mac' member who is simply an 'uninformed victim' of flashy marketing. Yet the 90% of computer owners who use Windows PCs are not? Bill Gates became the richest man in the world by NOT marketing to the masses? Hmmm. As somebody said the whole 'cult-of-Mac label is a pretty lame fallback. I'm into video and music production and to me, there is simply nothing as reliable as what I'm using now.
It's like this. I used Windows PCs for 15 years, lots of them. I was not exactly blissful about the constant crashes, viruses, or the lousy hardware/OS integration in general. Is Mac perfect? No, what is? But I know this - I've yet to have a single crash and I get a lot more work done. I get to use a lot of features that simply aren't on Windows machines yet. Same with the ipod. I had a little iriver thing, then I had a Yepp. They both broke, were clumsy to use, and their capacity was nowhere near enough. I went with a 'pod. I've been more than happy with it.
If being labelled a 'cult member' is the price to pay for getting stuff done and not having to go rely on Windows or Yepps anymore, well, that's how it is. But if you're going to toss labels around let's at least add Church of Latter Day Gates and Most Glorious Temple of iRiver to the list. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:02 am Post subject: |
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