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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: Hisbollah allowed to keep their weapons. |
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The IDF will have to resume operations in Lebanon if the expanded United Nations force being assembled does not fulfill its obligation to dismantle Hizbullah, an official in the Prime Minister�s Office warned on Tuesday.
Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora and Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah reportedly reached a deal allowing Hizbullah to keep its weapons but refrain from exhibiting them in public. Israeli officials called the arrangement a violation of UN Security Council Resolution 1701, which passed over the weekend and was approved on Sunday by the cabinet.
http://flapsblog.com//?p=3265
So...hisbollah get to keep their guns and entrench themselves even more in South Leb. How many more violations of the ceasefire will HB get away with? Will the Israeli soldiers be returned? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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The Lebanese gov't has failed their people.
If they had resolved to disarm Hezbollah, I was under the impression that the UN peacekeepers would at least assist the Lebanese in their operations.
But on a practical level, Hezbollah would also have to be allowed to keep some of their weapons. Small arms and even some semi-automatics are not going to threaten peace. Its rockets that can reach Israel and other sophisticated weaponry which is needed to project power, rather than protect from incursions, that need to be removed.
One wonders where Israel was during all this. Israel needs to at the very least pay for much of the damage incurred to neutral civilian infrastructure. No need to rebuild Hezbollah run hospitals, but they should fund repair on the airport runways. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| One wonders where Israel was during all this. Israel needs to at the very least pay for much of the damage incurred to neutral civilian infrastructure. No need to rebuild Hezbollah run hospitals, but they should fund repair on the airport runways. |
I just wanted to respond to this part of your post. I disagree. When you have a government that shelters a terrorist organization and gives it legitimancy by giving it a political voice, then when the same terrorist organization attacks another state, then that government has given up ALL right to compensation. "As you sow, so shall you reap."
And another thing. That kind of invalidates Israel's war planning which seems to hit them so hard they will think twice next time. But if Israel is going to pay for infrastructure that they blew up, that kind of takes away some of that incentive for peace.
Israel shouldn't pay a dime. That would only encourage terrorist organizations. "Hmm, let's see if we can extract millions of dollars from Israel? I know, let's kidnap some soldiers and hide out till the bombs stop falling!" |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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e Lebanese gov't has failed their people.
If they had resolved to disarm Hezbollah, I was under the impression that the UN peacekeepers would at least assist the Lebanese in their operations.
But on a practical level, Hezbollah would also have to be allowed to keep some of their weapons. Small arms and even some semi-automatics are not going to threaten peace. Its rockets that can reach Israel and other sophisticated weaponry which is needed to project power, rather than protect from incursions, that need to be removed.
One wonders where Israel was during all this. Israel needs to at the very least pay for much of the damage incurred to neutral civilian infrastructure. No need to rebuild Hezbollah run hospitals, but they should fund repair on the airport runways. |
Kuros,
A very well balanced viewpoint given the current "dynamics" . I disagree with some but see your point of view.
One thing to consider and which I think many people have no understanding of , is that Hizbollah is NOT a standing army. It is people with jobs and roles in the wider community. It is a militia and that militia will be inoperative when not threatened. Many people are under the false impression that they have tanks, march around daily and are "militarized" to the teeth. Not at all and their displays of might are in fact that only, just displays.
But this post is unbalanced...
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I just wanted to respond to this part of your post. I disagree. When you have a government that shelters a terrorist organization and gives it legitimancy by giving it a political voice, then when the same terrorist organization attacks another state, then that government has given up ALL right to compensation. "As you sow, so shall you reap."
And another thing. That kind of invalidates Israel's war planning which seems to hit them so hard they will think twice next time. But if Israel is going to pay for infrastructure that they blew up, that kind of takes away some of that incentive for peace. |
Why? First, the Lebanese govt did not shelter a "terrorist" organization. It tried to create peace within the framework and dynamics of Lebanon. It's past and its problems. They were trying to go forward. This all is turned on its head by the Israeli attack. The presumption that it was okay to bomb the hell out of Lebanon because they "had it coming' is just draconian and a "wild west " attitude. Lebanon , of all quarters/kinds, backed Hizbollah for obvious reasons -- its territorial integrity was trounced/trashed and Hizbollah was only able to respond and try what little it could with its matchsticks, to defend.
Given Lebanon's previous experience with Israel, given that Israel has treated Lebanon with distane and would not even begin business/economic arrangements etc....you can see who was "wanting war". If Israel would give much of its millions , in tied economic aid to its neighbours. Foster exchanges and create investment, jobs, ties of commerce, so much would change. Israel if it really wants peace , has to take the high road and help/aid. This and only this will help create a climate of mutual respect.
Who gives more aid to each other . Israel to its neighbours or its neighbours to Israel. By far, the latter. Israel should redirect its foreign policy away from the gun barrel and into channels which will foster good will and peace.....
DD |
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W.T.Carl
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| One wonders where Israel was during all this. Israel needs to at the very least pay for much of the damage incurred to neutral civilian infrastructure. No need to rebuild Hezbollah run hospitals, but they should fund repair on the airport runways. |
So by this logic the Lebanese government should pay for all the damage caused by Hisbollah rockets?
| Quote: |
| One thing to consider and which I think many people have no understanding of , is that Hizbollah is NOT a standing army. It is people with jobs and roles in the wider community. It is a militia and that militia will be inoperative when not threatened. Many people are under the false impression that they have tanks, march around daily and are "militarized" to the teeth. Not at all and their displays of might are in fact that only, just displays. |
You slander the word militia with this statement. Hisbollah is not a militia it is a terrorist organization. Inoperative  your stupidity astounds me.....was it 'inactive' when it invaded Isreal, killed and kidnapped its soldiers? Was it 'inactive' when it bombed American embassies? Its a terrorist organization with a strong presence in the country....as it is sheltered and protected by the government.
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| Why? First, the Lebanese govt did not shelter a "terrorist" organization. It tried to create peace within the framework and dynamics of Lebanon. It's past and its problems. They were trying to go forward. This all is turned on its head by the Israeli attack. The presumption that it was okay to bomb the hell out of Lebanon because they "had it coming' is just draconian and a "wild west " attitude. Lebanon , of all quarters/kinds, backed Hizbollah for obvious reasons -- its territorial integrity was trounced/trashed and Hizbollah was only able to respond and try what little it could with its matchsticks, to defend. |
Just how did it try to create peace? Turned on its head by Isreal? You mean that those damned Isrealis dared to protect its borders? Dared to care about its soldiers? Is this the peace you are talking about? This whole situation would never had happened if your 'inactive militia" had kept their grubby little paws off of and out of Isreal! Whose territorial integrity was trounced/trashed first? Open your freakin eyes moron!
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| Given Lebanon's previous experience with Israel, given that Israel has treated Lebanon with distane and would not even begin business/economic arrangements etc....you can see who was "wanting war". If Israel would give much of its millions , in tied economic aid to its neighbours. Foster exchanges and create investment, jobs, ties of commerce, so much would change. Israel if it really wants peace , has to take the high road and help/aid. This and only this will help create a climate of mutual respect. |
You cannot take the high road when you are dealing with fanatical terrorists. Its pointless to even try!
A farmer picked up a viper that was half-dead from the cold. When the farmer had warmed the viper, the viper uncoiled and grabbed hold of the man's hand and with a fatal bite, he killed the man who had wanted to save him. As he was dying, the man spoke some words that are well worth remembering: 'Well, I got what I deserve for having shown kindness to a scoundrel!'
I am sure that Isreal feels this way towards the bulk of the arab world. A world that has acted against Isreal from its conception. Using violence, terror and economic sanctions against them. Hisbollah recieves 60 million dollars a year from Iraq to fund its terrorist activities.
When dealing with demons you deal in fire and silver. You do not offer the demons access to your home! |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Grotto,
I won't make a long and informed response to your vitriol.....You obviously have your mind made up without any background knowledge nor sense of the dynamics of the region.
Firstly, I do not think Hizbollah's past terrorist activity was anything but diabolic. IF. They have never taken responsibility for the claimed acts though I believe they are responsible indirectly through many of their armed wings. Horrible.
But this was a past time and would take ages to discuss, as would all of Israel's past terrorist acts. At present, the last number of years, Hizbollah is not seen as "terrorists" except for when convenient by Israel. Even
Dennis Ross, the Middle East envoy under the first Bush and Clinton administrations, has stated that
| Quote: |
| Hezbollah's resistance to the Israeli occupation, unlike its past activities aimed at Western targets, is not terrorism and that the US included Hezbollah on its list of terrorist groups for Hezbollah's past activities, not for its ongoing resistance to Israel |
they are properly seen as a militia and an resistance movement. Further, they made vast progress in areas of social assistance, women's rights and the rule of law (all Western based). they have called Al Qaeda as the demons they are and further, have not entered the fray in Iraq or elsewhere.....
Your view of them is false and it stems from just eating whatever the media wishes to feed you.
You say,
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as it is sheltered and protected by the government. |
I don't think this is the case. Hizbollah is part of the government and if anything, shelters and protects itself and the Lebanese it represents, its constituency.
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| You mean that those damned Isrealis dared to protect its borders? Dared to care about its soldiers? Is this the peace you are talking about? This whole situation would never had happened if your 'inactive militia" had kept their grubby little paws off of and out of Isreal! Whose territorial integrity was trounced/trashed first? Open your freakin eyes moron! |
Besides your hate and uncompromising sense of the politics of this region, you fail to see that Hizbollah was Israel's baby. Created by her and nurtured by her. Until you see that, you won't understand what is happening there at present. Further, I have elsewhere addressed the issue of "borders" (but may we also mention Israel's continued occupation of Golan (syria) and Cheeba (Lebanon) and also its refusal to submit to almost 38 previous U.N. resolutions......(incase you want to bring up the ONE of disarming Hizbollah). Let's not forget the history of Israel's invasion........
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| You cannot take the high road when you are dealing with fanatical terrorists. Its pointless to even try! |
You are completely wrong. Taking the high road is NOT being defenseless, but being strong. It is doing the moral and right thing. It is about looking after the future and not the momentary impulse of retribution and retaliation. It is about respecting the enemy and dealing with them from strength but without diabolical hatred. Taking the highroad is saving your children's lives.
I've lived a little bit in my life and one fact I can conclude. The world spins in violence because of those afraid to see their enemies as "human" and with all the same qualities, wishes, dreams as themselves. You fail to see them as humans (even as your snake image Freudianly supposses). Good riddens to you. Start learning some more and looking at things with a little more depth.
DD |
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