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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: Left Behind and the White House |
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Kinda scary stuff, thinking the White House might be using end times stuff to plan foreign policy. Isn't the president of Iran doing the exact same thing?
To think I was scared back when the big wigs in the White House during Reagan/Bush used to read Tom Clancy to get their hard on.
People who think the world is going to end have a way of bringing about the end. Heaven's Gate, Jonestown, Branch Davidians... |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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There is a hefty contingent of secular Jews among the neo-con foreign policy poobahs, and I doubt very much that they subscribe to a Christian ideology which preaches that Israel is neccessary to facilitate the return of Christ and the destruction of all Jews who refuse to convert. (Which is what the Left Behind crowd believes.) And I doubt that even the non-Jewish technocrats like Rumsfeld swallow this stuff.
But apocalypse-minded evangelical Christians are a big part of the GOP voting bloc these days, and I would guess that the main point in inviting this writer to address White House staffers was to give them some idea about what an average member of the Christian coalition thinks about foreign policy, so they can better tailor their message for that demographic.
Plus, it doesn't hurt Bush among evangelical voters if some right-wing Christian bigwig is going around telling his flock how he got invited to the corridors of power. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
There is a hefty contingent of secular Jews among the neo-con foreign policy poobahs, and I doubt very much that they subscribe to a Christian ideology which preaches that Israel is neccessary to facilitate the return of Christ and the destruction of all Jews who refuse to convert. (Which is what the Left Behind crowd believes.) And I doubt that even the non-Jewish technocrats like Rumsfeld swallow this stuff.
But apocalypse-minded evangelical Christians are a big part of the GOP voting bloc these days, and I would guess that the main point in inviting this writer to address White House staffers was to give them some idea about what an average member of the Christian coalition thinks about foreign policy, so they can better tailor their message for that demographic.
Plus, it doesn't hurt Bush among evangelical voters if some right-wing Christian bigwig is going around telling his flock how he got invited to the corridors of power. |
Bingo, I don't think they smoke this dope but they do peddle it. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:47 am Post subject: |
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People who think the world is going to end have a way of bringing about the end. Heaven's Gate, Jonestown, Branch Davidians...
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Yes, they do, although not exactly in the way they were thinking. And having any of them walking in the corridors of power is enough to scare the bejeezus out of me.
Can't we just skip 2007 and to to the Election of '08 now? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Scary stuff, indeed.
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Imad Moustapha , the Syrian ambassador to the United States, writes in a Los Angeles Times op-ed: "Although the media have reported that no contacts have been made between the two countries over the last three weeks, administration officials have sent vague signals that this might be happening through back channels.
"But no communication whatsoever has taken place. U.S. policy remains to ignore the Syrian government. And it remains fundamentally wrong. . . .
"Currently, the White House doesn't talk to the democratically elected government of Palestine. It does not talk to Hezbollah, which has democratically elected members in the Lebanese parliament and is a member of the Lebanese coalition government. It does not talk to Iran, and it certainly does not talk to Syria.
"Gone are the days when U.S. special envoys to the Middle East would spend hours, if not days, with Syrian officials brainstorming, discussing, negotiating and looking for creative solutions leading to a compromise or settlement. Instead, this administration follows the Bolton Doctrine: There is no need to talk to Syria, because Syria knows what it needs to do. End of the matter." |
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"Q I think he did say that he thought civil war was a possibility.
" MR. SNOW: Okay. Well, I don't think the President is going to quibble with his generals on their characterizations."
Incidentally, there are objective characteristics that all modern civil wars share. Harvard political science professor Monica Toft lists six commonly accepted criteria. And guess what? Iraq meets all of them.
Thomas L. Friedman writes in his New York Times opinion column today (subscription required): "It is now obvious that we are not midwifing democracy in Iraq. We are baby-sitting a civil war. . . .
"[T]he administration now has to admit what anyone -- including myself -- who believed in the importance of getting Iraq right has to admit: Whether for Bush reasons or Arab reasons, it is not happening, and we can't throw more good lives after good lives." |
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| "In addition, three of the committee's leading Democrats announced that they would block the confirmation of a senior Justice Department official in protest of a recent move by President Bush. The president effectively stopped a probe into the NSA program by denying security clearances to Justice Department investigators. . . |
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| Matt Stearns writes for McClatchy Newspapers that even with two parts of the report complete: "That leaves unfinished three reports in the so-called Phase II investigation, including the potentially explosive one that compares the pre-war public statements of government officials to the intelligence they had at the time. Opponents of the war have said the administration routinely exaggerated the menace presented by Iraq." |
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The Tribune wrote: "Congress and the courts must rein in this presidential power grab. [b]To do otherwise would be to court tyranny."[/b]
And yes, in 2004, the Tribune endorsed Bush. |
Ah, yet I am so shrill!!!! |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:58 am Post subject: Re: Left Behind and the White House |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
Kinda scary stuff, thinking the White House might be using end times stuff to plan foreign policy. Isn't the president of Iran doing the exact same thing?
To think I was scared back when the big wigs in the White House during Reagan/Bush used to read Tom Clancy to get their hard on.
People who think the world is going to end have a way of bringing about the end. Heaven's Gate, Jonestown, Branch Davidians... |
What do you know about eschatology? How does the writer know what Bush thinks? As usual, a bunch of bullshyte assumptions. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Left Behind and the White House |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| As usual, a bunch of bullshyte assumptions. |
You're not a christian. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Five Eagles wrote:
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What do you know about eschatology? How does the writer know what Bush thinks? As usual, a bunch of bullshyte assumptions.
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Five Eagles, would you care to point out where exactly on this thread people have misrepresented the eschatology of the Left Behind books? |
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guangho
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| It rubs me the wrong way when people say that Jews and Christian conservatives are allies. We are not. Evangelicals don't see Jews as allies or even full human beings- merely as objects ripe for conversion. The choices offered- live in Israel, convert, or burn in hell- marry religiosity and the segregationist instincts Southern Baptists (in particular) are raised on. Their parents wanted segregation on Earth- they, being more politically savvy, want segregation in Heaven. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Five Eagles wrote:
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What do you know about eschatology? How does the writer know what Bush thinks? As usual, a bunch of bullshyte assumptions.
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Five Eagles, would you care to point out where exactly on this thread people have misrepresented the eschatology of the Left Behind books? |
This is what he said about having an endtime view,
"I haven't really thought of it that way," Bush told her after a long pause, adding that he hadn't previously heard the theory. "I guess I'm more of a practical fellow."
And the opposite is written about in the article. Trying to attribute an eshatology to Bush and then applying it to his worldview is another ridiculous attempt to brand him as their version of "what a neocon should be".
MinyMe2, what is Bush's eschatology? Has he actually written or talked about it? I would really like to read it. The author of the article doesn't link any thoughts by Bush to support his hypothesis. He does link Bush to some of the pastors and christian leaders who have gone to speak at the white house. However, that's a big leap, don't you think? It doesn't mean that Bush ascribes to such beliefs. And there are quite a few eschatologies that are floating around. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
Five Eagles wrote:
| Quote: |
What do you know about eschatology? How does the writer know what Bush thinks? As usual, a bunch of bullshyte assumptions.
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Five Eagles, would you care to point out where exactly on this thread people have misrepresented the eschatology of the Left Behind books? |
This is what he said about having an endtime view,
"I haven't really thought of it that way," Bush told her after a long pause, adding that he hadn't previously heard the theory. "I guess I'm more of a practical fellow."
And the opposite is written about in the article. Trying to attribute an eshatology to Bush and then applying it to his worldview is another ridiculous attempt to brand him as their version of "what a neocon should be".
MinyMe2, what is Bush's eschatology? Has he actually written or talked about it? I would really like to read it. The author of the article doesn't link any thoughts by Bush to support his hypothesis. He does link Bush to some of the pastors and christian leaders who have gone to speak at the white house. However, that's a big leap, don't you think? It doesn't mean that Bush ascribes to such beliefs. And there are quite a few eschatologies that are floating around. |
Where did I attribute this belief to Bush? I said "bigwigs", not "the bigwig". I said White House, not Bush. Even if Bush does not have a fantasy that he's living in the end times, if the people who supply him with information and guide his decision making do, it is rather disturbing, in my opinion. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
Five Eagles wrote:
| Quote: |
What do you know about eschatology? How does the writer know what Bush thinks? As usual, a bunch of bullshyte assumptions.
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Five Eagles, would you care to point out where exactly on this thread people have misrepresented the eschatology of the Left Behind books? |
This is what he said about having an endtime view,
"I haven't really thought of it that way," Bush told her after a long pause, adding that he hadn't previously heard the theory. "I guess I'm more of a practical fellow."
And the opposite is written about in the article. Trying to attribute an eshatology to Bush and then applying it to his worldview is another ridiculous attempt to brand him as their version of "what a neocon should be".
MinyMe2, what is Bush's eschatology? Has he actually written or talked about it? I would really like to read it. The author of the article doesn't link any thoughts by Bush to support his hypothesis. He does link Bush to some of the pastors and christian leaders who have gone to speak at the white house. However, that's a big leap, don't you think? It doesn't mean that Bush ascribes to such beliefs. And there are quite a few eschatologies that are floating around. |
Where did I attribute this belief to Bush? I said "bigwigs", not "the bigwig". I said White House, not Bush. Even if Bush does not have a fantasy that he's living in the end times, if the people who supply him with information and guide his decision making do, it is rather disturbing, in my opinion. |
Maybe you haven't, but the author has. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Maybe you haven't, but the author has. |
Where? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:03 am Post subject: |
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Somebody finally asked Bush for his views on the subject in March, during a visit to the City Club of Cleveland
"My question is that author and former Nixon administration official Kevin Phillips, in his latest book, American Theocracy, discusses what has been called radical Christianity and its growing involvement into government and politics. He makes the point that members of your administration have reached out to prophetic Christians who see the war in Iraq and the rise of terrorism as signs of the apocalypse. Do you believe this, that the war in Iraq and the rise of terrorism are signs of the apocalypse? And if not, why not?" |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Left Behind and the White House |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
Kinda scary stuff, thinking the White House might be using end times stuff to plan foreign policy. Isn't the president of Iran doing the exact same thing?
To think I was scared back when the big wigs in the White House during Reagan/Bush used to read Tom Clancy to get their hard on.
People who think the world is going to end have a way of bringing about the end. Heaven's Gate, Jonestown, Branch Davidians... |
Hatw to break it to you, but the world WILL END.
EIther by the second coming, and if not then by this:
In a long time from now the Earth's star the sun will have expended its nuclear fuel and unable to balance its internal reactions will swell up to the size of a red giant star engulfing mercury, venus and Earth, with Mars becoming the new mercury.
Then after the last bit of nuclear fuel is spent, the star will shrivel and become a lifeless dwarf.
The world will have ended. |
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