Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Big_Bird]

If someone freely chooses to wear a niqab, what skin is it off your nose?

Pink-faced Englishmen in crimson braces make me feel uncomfortable. But let's concentrate on what really matters

Timothy Garton Ash
Thursday October 12, 2006
The Guardian


I have been meaning for some time to write a column in defence of the hijab, on the same grounds on which I defended free speech last week. In a free country people should be able to wear what they like, just as they should be able to say what they like, so long as it does not imperil the life or liberty of others. My only reason for hesitating was the thought that I, as a non-Muslim man, am not self-evidently well qualified to judge what the hijab means to Muslim women. If a female Muslim journalist were to write about, say, the problems of jockstrap-wearing among rugby forwards, a similar objection might be made. But if we could only write about those things of which we have direct personal experience, there wouldn't be much journalism or literature left.

.....

The most tiresome argument in this whole debate is that the niqab makes white, middle-class English people feel "uncomfortable" or "threatened". Well, I want to say, what a load of whingeing wusses. Threatened by drunken football hooligans or muggers - that I can understand. But threatened by a woman quietly going about her business in a veil? As for uncomfortable: myself, I feel uncomfortable with a certain kind of pink-faced Englishman wearing crimson braces, a white-cuffed pinstriped shirt and a bow tie. Their clothing is a fair predictor of the views that will come out of their mouths. But I don't ask them to take off their braces.

For complete article click here

[Moldy Rutabaga]

It doesn't bother me if a woman wears a veil. But if the girl next to her is threatened with gasoline if she doesn't put on one too, that might bother me a little.

Ken:>

[gang ah jee]

[dulouz]

People in the know know that women not wearing a niqab are called whores by Muslims. this includes everyone outside of the religion/politic as well. Its not a choice. Its "wear this or we beat you".

As I stated earlier, masking offends Western culture. We think that people that wear masks are up to no good. You want to wear a mask if you want to rob a bank. Its a reckless assumption to think it won't have effect regardless of the spin. Its called increased tension, its called antagonism, its called confrontation.

[riley]

Y'know, I think she's right, it's okay to wear some clothing, who cares what it might represent and how the values that it represents might clash with the very ideals of her city. In fact, since I'm from the back areas of the U.S., I think I'm going to wear a white hood over my face and white robes. It's only clothing and is part of my culture.

Seriously, the point of a niqab is to enforce a certain standard onto women. It's part of the idea of making a woman "modest" and it does show who is in control of that society. Are these values held by the majority of people in the west?

[Big_Bird]

[gang ah jee]

Big_Bird, this is one of the challenges of liberal politics, but how do you reconcile defending the right to wear the niqab and the burqa with (presumably) disagreeing with the underlying cultural practices that proscribe a woman from having a public identity of her own?

Silly question, I know, but describing niqab-wearing as a 'free choice' may not be completely accurate.

[riley]

By her, I was responding to Big Bird, who I thought is a woman, if I am wrong Big Bird, , sorry.

Big Bird, GAJ basically asked the question I was wondering, what's your answer?

[Big_Bird]

I've just spotted this, but I have to run... I'll answer when I've a bit more time.

[thepeel]

How pathetic.

The Guardian would, I assume, have been at the forefront of the feminist movement (women burning their bras, not accepting their so-called"natural" place in society etc) but today publishes articles defending islamic symbols of misogyny and oppression. In the hierarchy of leftist sins, sadly, the crime of criticising brown people is worse than the crime of oppressing women.

The VAST MAJORITY of women wear the veil because their male family members (father, brother, husbands etc) force them. I don't think BB realizes just how common it is for women to get their asses kicked in muslim housholds. The larger community of muslims also band together to ensure that those who don't wear it are isolated. In fact, in areas of Holland and parts of France, white, non-muslim women are now wearing the veil in their neighbourhoods to fend off rapists. But, lets not talk about that. dd might get offended that I call the muslims out on that.

To "ban" the burka, veil etc is not the proper place of government. But it MUST be criticised by all who value liberty. It should be made known to them that it is absurd and illiberal.

[Satori]

The idea that the there are not profound, fundamental, and intractible differences in the core values of Islam and western culture is misleading and dangerous.

Riley said it best, what if I want to wear my white hood? Clothes mean things. And I say we do NOT have to accept Islamic values in our own countries.

[ddeubel]

[ddeubel]

[Ya-ta Boy]

I have a question for the experts on Islamic culture. Indonesia is the largest Moslem nation and India is right up there at the top of the list. Why don't the women in those countries wear veils? Or do they?

[riley]

Honestly, just making someone not wear the veil, scarf, niqab, (etc) will not change the values they and their relatives and fellow immigrants hold.
But neither do I believe this will