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Who is right? Hamas or Israel?
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Who is right?
Hamas / Palestine
36%
 36%  [ 17 ]
Israel
63%
 63%  [ 29 ]
Total Votes : 46

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tbag81



Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: mokpo, south korea

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:36 am    Post subject: Who is right? Hamas or Israel? Reply with quote

Hamas has been shooting rockets into Israel, breaking the cease-fire agreement. Israel has retaliated, killing far more Palestinian civilians than Hamas has killed Israeli civilians.

No one is right when innocent people die. Let's just answer the question with our opinions.

Who's right?
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bjonothan



Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muslims are like a cancer on the world that keeps spreading. I hope the Israelis make bitches out of them once again and teaches them a lesson that they won't forget. It is always sad to see kids get in the way and the outlook for the middle east is continuing to worsen due to that horrible cult they call a religion that makes people hell bent on disrupting other peoples lives or worse by killing them.

I am sure that it will continue to be a problem in the future. The problem is that we are faced with two choices. Leave them alone and suffer more attacks as they grow stronger, or bomb them back to the stone age so they can't do anything else. I vote for the second choice personally. I don't want any more people in my country, the US or anywhere in Europe to die because of Muslims.

If you hit hard they are less likely to attack again. You don't win wars by being nice....
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bangbayed



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess Christmas really is over for you, eh?
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asylum seeker



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's the neither option?
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asylum seeker wrote:
Where's the neither option?


That's what I was thinking. Nobody's hands are clean in this situation, but Hamas really sucks (for want of a better word).

They televise pure hatred to the populace, even including publicizing their attacks on Israel with disgusting narratives. Even 'childrens' programming' is not exempt.

They are a detestable operation and a blight on the legitimacy of the Palestinian peoples' claims of victimhood. It seems clear they are more interested in carrying out their mandate than securing peace and prosperity for their people.
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Summer Wine



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to go with neither as well.

Though I guess its better today than in a few years when the rockets being fired over the border from Gaza contain biological or chemical munitions and the retaliation from Israel leaves the world truly shocked.

If both states cant live in peace then maybe Egypt should take over Gaza and just return it to a pre 1967 position and maybe the West Bank could join with Jordan.

Both areas seem to small to be economically strong and its difficult to see how they could join as one country with a huge slice of Israel separating them. Its possible that the same thing that happened between West Pakistan and East Pakistan will occur and both will become a separate state.

Is difficult to understand why the world seems to believe that Israel must continue to trade with Gaza or have supplies sent through thier borders. It might be better for all if a UN neutal member state took over the access point between Gaza and Egypt and made sure that all products, electricity supply was checked according to the UN standards as well as taking over control of Gaza's airspace and sea lanes until they come to some sort of agreement that will stay at peace.

It seems rather strange to me as a neutral observer that the CNN map shows West Bank as a different color than Israel while marking Gaza with the same color as Israel but just a line demarcating it.

You would think that occupation seems a bit strong a word for a region with its own Government, Police, Army. terrorist allies. There are many other countries that would love that, the Tamil tgers of Sri Lanka are not considered occupied and yet they have less assistance and stability than Gaza.

I guess its easier to focus on Israel vs Gaza then Sri Lanka vs the Tamils. Both have on going wars and violence against them.

(post edit)


Last edited by Summer Wine on Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Summer Wine wrote:

If both states cant live in peace then maybe Egypt should take over Gaza and just return it to a pre 1967 position and maybe the West Bank could join with Jordan.


This is absolutely the most reasonable and efficient path to a lasting settlement. There is absolutely no reason for there to be an independent Pali state. None. Zip. Egypt and Jordan can absorb their kin.
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chris_J2



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Israel / Hamas Reply with quote

A third option in the poll is missing. Both are as bad as each other, as several others have already implied.
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Sapa



Joined: 05 Nov 2007

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always think Robert Fisk hits the nail on the head.....

Quote:
We've got so used to the carnage of the Middle East that we don't care any more � providing we don't offend the Israelis. It's not clear how many of the Gaza dead are civilians, but the response of the Bush administration, not to mention the pusillanimous reaction of Gordon Brown, reaffirm for Arabs what they have known for decades: however they struggle against their antagonists, the West will take Israel's side. As usual, the bloodbath was the fault of the Arabs � who, as we all know, only understand force.

Ever since 1948, we've been hearing this balderdash from the Israelis � just as Arab nationalists and then Arab Islamists have been peddling their own lies: that the Zionist "death wagon" will be overthrown, that all Jerusalem will be "liberated". And always Mr Bush Snr or Mr Clinton or Mr Bush Jnr or Mr Blair or Mr Brown have called upon both sides to exercise "restraint" � as if the Palestinians and the Israelis both have F-18s and Merkava tanks and field artillery. Hamas's home-made rockets have killed just 20 Israelis in eight years, but a day-long blitz by Israeli aircraft that kills almost 300 Palestinians is just par for the course.

The blood-splattering has its own routine. Yes, Hamas provoked Israel's anger, just as Israel provoked Hamas's anger, which was provoked by Israel, which was provoked by Hamas, which ... See what I mean? Hamas fires rockets at Israel, Israel bombs Hamas, Hamas fires more rockets and Israel bombs again and ... Got it? And we demand security for Israel � rightly � but overlook this massive and utterly disproportionate slaughter by Israel. It was Madeleine Albright who once said that Israel was "under siege" � as if Palestinian tanks were in the streets of Tel Aviv.

rst of article.... http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-leaders-lie-civilians-die-and-lessons-of-history-are-ignored-1215045.html
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Summer Wine



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Israel Air Force warplanes killed 10 Palestinians on Tuesday morning in attacks that targeted Hamas government buildings and other symbols of the Islamist group, Palestinian witnesses said.


Yes, pro palestinians are absolutely correct. ISRAEL wont stop here, the trains are running, the US Jews are joining the SF as we speak.

OH MY GOD, have they dug the pits yet? ARE THE EUROPEANS READY FOR THE SLAUGHTER?

Have we cried enough tears for the victims of violence? Maybe an extra tear or two will pay for the blood that is shed?

(Ok, maybe I am stirring)
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bangbayed



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a third party who arguably takes most of the blame:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyaBWyNFZfA&playnext=1&playnext_from=QL
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daskalos



Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't vote, in part because the poll is flawed, by way of thinking of Palestinians as some united block, and by way of thinking that the Muslim world is united behind Palestinians as a single block. "Moderate" Muslim governments seem to side with Fatah. "Radical" Muslim governments seem to back Hamas. Muslims in the street, regardless of their government's tacit position, seem to be against any Israeli action against any Muslim group. To say nothing of the fact that Israelis themselves, as distinct from their government's actions, are divided over this issue.

The poll poses far too black and white a question.

We could ask, is the Israeli response disproportionate to the provocation? Maybe. (I don't know, but I do know that most Westerners don't realize that far more Palestinians have been killed in this conflict, in the last 50 years, than have Israelis, because the Western press doesn't generally cover dead Palestinians.) We could ask, is Hamas a terrorist organization? Maybe. (I'd say yes.) We could ask, is it ethical or moral for Israel to kill civilians, even though Hamas places its missile batteries in the midst of civilian populations? (Maybe, I'd say yes.) We could ask, is it ethical for Hamas to place its missile batteries in civilian populations, even though Gaza is nothing but a civilian population? (I'd say no, but then I don't live their desperate lives.)

This poll is idiotically Manichean. Not every question has a clearly defined white or black hat. More options, please.
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John_ESL_White



Joined: 12 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Israel/ Palestine conflist reminds me of children fighting.

It's too bad the UN is too weak to smack the hell out of both of them, sit them in the corner for awhile and shame them.

No one is right.

The Lebanese and Palestine arabs are foo fundamentalist to think clearly about anything...

The Israeli jews are just as fanatical and blinded by god knows what...

Their policy of 'kill one Israeli and we kill one hundred Palestinians is Hitleresque.

Granted, the palestinaian and Lebonese policy of shooting rockets indescriminately at Israel because israelis are not worthy of living in the arabs' sandbox is just as hitleresque (though, with a retarded fundamentalist religious twist that no one in their right mind could ever understand).

Both sides are babies. Both need a smack. Come on UN. Come on European Union Armed Forces (lol).

In reality, I don't give a smack. Let them kill each other. Neither side are my brothers.
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Sapa



Joined: 05 Nov 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit - wrong topic
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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you take away someone's country and shove their people into a piece of land the size of Tokyo, what do you expect?

Oh yeah, have total control pf their water, food, coastlines, etc. You have people living in prison, basically.
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